Pfffffffttt. Corporations don't PAY taxes.. corporations are tax COLLECTORS. Corporations include taxes with their overhead expenses along with labor, facilities, and operations and add this cost onto the price of the consumer product. The consumer pays all corporation taxes. The consumer is YOU.

Cool Fusion,

The corporation is you too. Corporations are owned by people and staffed by people. These people earn their livings off the corporation and pay taxes on those earnings. If you tax the corporation itself all you do is keep that money from the owners, shareholders, and employees and just end up taxing them less. The corporation is there to provide goods and services to other people. To do so the corporation needs to cover the taxes, overhead, labor, facilities and operations in order to earn a profit so that they too can go home with some money. If you feel a particular corporation is dishonest or unfair to its customers or employees you may exercise your right to not consume their product or service (unless of course it's a health insurance company in which case you must consume their product by law).

Sean, I think you may have misunderstood the point CF was making. It isn't a matter of whether or not they want to pay taxes. All things being equal among their competition, they have no reason to care how much the government takes from them because they will ALL raise their prices to cover the tax increase which means WE pay for it!

The working middle class is who is getting hammered the most by rising corporate taxes via higher prices from that hidden tax load resulting in less consumption, fewer jobs ultimately ending up with LESS net revenue to the government.

The exception is if government made corporate tax 100% - then they'd all quit and the government would get ZERO. Wouldn't you quit if the government took 100% of what you earned?

Progressive commies like Obama refuse to listen to the truth because it is contrary to their agenda. Egotists like him, (and Hillary..), do NOT care about how much revenue is collected because they only want the power to control people. Taxation is the biggest club in their arsenal to do just that! They justify using it by appointing themselves as self-righteous arbiters of 'fairness' because they view themselves as "champions of the poor"! .. just like Lenin did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54jr3Ceu894

Pay close attention to Obama's idiotic response, his twisted concept of the very purpose of the power of federal taxation is what I'd not only call "irresponsible" - it's downright dangerous.

Great video Mike, This should be mandatory viewing for all the uninformed.
JFK and Reagan cut taxes during their administration, and the federal government had more money to take care of the down trodden! This video excellently shows that it is only about control. Can you imagine the arrogance and stupidity of not just them, but the people that peddle this crap to the ignorant? ( media )!

Steve, don't forget the Bush tax cuts that Obama continued. The Feds are raking in the dough to the tune of @$2.7 Trillion a year. A record amount yet they can't live within their means! And anyone can tell me we don't have a spending problem!

Bob, social give aways are what will finally break the bank. The problem with Obama and the new progressives that are in control of our country,is that they may very well be doing this on purpose. What better way to end a Capitalist Democracy then to bankrupt it and then say " we tried it, and it didn't work" time for fundamental change!
Obama has been lying to the American people about his intentions and they have been buying it because most Americans don't pay attention to politics and he comes across as a nice guy.
The Main Street media is filled with progressives that report to the people only what works for their agenda.
This country is in trouble with beyond record dept., and millions of uniformed voters
That have decided the last few elections.
If we as a people don't start paying attention to what is going on, we will go the way of Greece, and end up like the old Soviet Union!
The leaders of the the old soviet block promised this would happen thru force or fruition one day! They may have very well been right!

Ronald Reagan ended the force part, and Obama and the media are trying the fruition part!

Mike Mitchell: I just viewed the video. It is misleading. Adjustments to tax rates are made all the time. Surely I don't have to go through a history of reform measures from Truman on . Capital gains went from 25% to 15% , then up to 20%, then down to 18% , then to 15%. The video is a stretch and a propaganda piece that proves nothing. The conclusory narratives don't even fit the speech. Anything to fill the airwaves with right wing propaganda and misleading, inaccurate , no point commentary. the trick here is to make people believe the written narrative by showing a debate that does ot fit the propaganda. . But that is what propaganda is.

The video has Obama admitting that raising taxes is not about raising revenue, it's about tax fairness!
Huh?????????
When taxes go up, revenue goes down, when taxes go down, revenue goes up!
What was hard to understand for you about the video?

Tyler Jozefowicz: "The video is a stretch and a propaganda piece.."

Well, considering that it's an actual democrat primary debate, you may have a point there concerning "propaganda". I'd call it "fantasy" but let's not quibble over terminology.

However, it IS what Obama and Gibson actually said. Here's a version with no diversionary narrative interuptions to break your concentration. It's all of what they said and in the order they said it, (unlike your likely favorite cable channel MSNBC that doctors 911 tapes to incite race riots.)

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IUfo-RxkXA8#!

Here's the debate transcript too - http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4670271&page=18

Now tell me that THAT is propaganda? (Not that I expect someone like you to reply when cornered by the truth.)

Bob: your figure about the " Bush tax cuts that Obama continued of $2.7 trillion a year" is way off the mark. The Bush tax cuts resulted in about 1 trillion over 10 YEARS. The 2 year extension is far less than that . Obama supported the extension for 2 years because we were not totally out of the Republican Recession, but got no reciprocity from the Republicans. If you have an actual figure , by all means supply it. Recent enactment of the top level tax cut being reduced from those earning over 1 million to $400K will diminish that, and provide more revenue to reduce the Debt.
I'm sure you agree that they should be extended and are willing to give President Obama credit for that. Yes or no?

Sean Ward: "Corporations are people , my friend." Now who said that?

If corporations are people , I want to see the birth certificate.

Tyler, if the CEO of a buisness commits a crime, just sentence the building to jail time!
Or maybe the stock certificates? Or maybe his office?
Gee, if a buisness is not the people that run it, who would be responsible for the crime?

Steve Marino: We just went through a 10 year Bush period ( 2001-2009) where income taxes went down, 2001 &2003, and revenue went down , about 1 trillion less taxes and about 1.5 trillion in lost tax revenue . That accounts for 2 trillion more in the national debt. So there is not an inverse relationship. The last 4 Obama years , same thing, from continuation of the Bush tax cuts ( except the latest 400K rev bracket adjustment that has not taken effect yet) and the Republican Recession . Not hard to understand ; we have now 15 years of statistical evidence. dredging up a theoretical question with Obama and Hillary in 2008 on one component of the tax structure is not going to change that, unless you really want to believe. Do a video on my proposition above , detailed in 13 years ( 2001-2013) of statistical proof, you get a different result.

What you just said is not true! When Bush cut taxes, revenue actually went up. It was the increased spending that increased the dept.!
As I have posted here, Bush sucked as well, it's just that Obama is far Worse in a time when we needed a real conservative to turn things around like Ronald Reagan did.
How can you do just the opposite of what has proven to work and expect the same results, unless of course that is not your intent at all?
It's amazing to me to see how many people have been sold B.S.!
I guess Hitler fooled the masses, so I know it can be done!
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying Obama is like Hitler, just making a point that leaders can fool many ignorant people, that's all!

Get it right Obama is a Patrick clone. Patrick is older and has worked for big business directly Obama just gets his strings pulled by big business.

When you are young and naive, one has liberal leanings. When you are older and see how things work in life, one becomes conservative. Just look honestly back at history, and you will get all the answers you need to move forward.
Making the same mistakes of the past, will doom our future! The problem is liberals are only interested in controlling everyone's lives instead of doing what works to bring prosperity to " ALL " Americans!

So you must have been outraged when Bush grew the Federal government more than any other president, borrowed more money than all other presidents combined, took OUR surplus and left a massive deficit, knowingly lied his way into two wars with no way to pay for it, "lost" billions in Iraq, and then gave away huge tax breaks without paying for them?? Nah, didn't think so. What's that thing dangling in front of your face....it's not a tassel this time! Why yes, you're another Tea Bagger I won't bother to read again.

Mike, Bush 4 trillion in 8 years with 2 wars!
Obama, almost 7 trillion in just 4 years!
Don't let facts get in the way of your fairy tails!

It would not have made any difference who won the election in 2000, we would still have been attacked on 9/11. Circumstances of 9/11 dictated what would be done. Bush is no more to blame than Gore would have been. One thing for sure, glad it didn't happen on Obama's watch. He would still be trying to talk his way out of being bombed. The man has no backbone Fundraisers are more important than trying to find out what happened in Benghazi. Also, he would have thrown more money at the war. That's the Democrat way. Look at Vietnam. Micromanaged from day one by a democrat congress. Republicans take responsibility Democrats find someone to blame. Time that Obama and the Democrats in congress faced up to some responsibility for the failings of the past. Mike you must be a Democrat. Don't dismiss the Tea Bagger. Does nothing he say question any thing you think you believe. Keep reading An open mind is a learning mind. A closed mind is wasted.

Mike, government spending is only an issue when a Democrat is in office. You will never hear one peep out of the right when Reagan or either Bush is running up the bill. Then a Democrat has to spend to get American out of a recession Republicans had had huge hand in creating, and all the critics come out of the woodwork!
Where were they in 2000-2008?

Borden, you don't spend to get us out of a recession, you cut spending and over taxing people that spend money that stimulate the economy.
Your getting your information from people that don't understand this simple economic reality!
This is precisely why we have the problems that we face today!
Bush spent a ridicules amount of money in 8 years fighting 2 wars to protect your children. ( 4 trillion ) as well as never vetoing a single wasteful spending bill because he wanted to get along with the democrats and was a fool because of it.
Obama has wasted almost 7 trillion in just 4 years and where are we?
And Obama care bill has not come yet.

Is he and the Democratic Party that incompetent?, or are they trying to break the bank
on purpose? Anyway you look at it, we all loose!

Steve, he spent and we came out of the recession. Did he really need to invade Irag to protect your children Steve, Really? The whole war was one big lie, still being defended by some to this day, ridiculous!
Talk about waste Steve, what will be the final cost of that rouse. And over 4000 of somebody else's kids died for no damn reason.
Is the Republican Party that arrogant as to forget their role, sadly, it would appear so. Happy 10th anniversary George, Donald and Dick. You left American a badly damaged nation!

He cut taxes and we came out of the recession!
I am no defender of Bush and think he was a jackass for different reason then you, but you have to put things in context, and no one has wasted more of our taxes dollars then Obama.
If government spending was what stimulates an economy, we would be in the best
shape this country has ever seen with the nearly 7 trillion gone. The problem is Obama and the democrats either are completly incompetent, or are actually trying to break the bank to fundimentally " change " this country from a capatilist democracy to a socialist nation! We have all seen how well this has worked throughout the world.
The only people that thrive in that environment are the people doing the dictating to the little people they control. The people being controlled by the dictators have dirt, just as we have seen throughout the world.
Socialism has failed everywhere it has been tried!
Why do you think people try to escape from these country's ?, because this is a better alternative? They are enslaved in despair!

Sorry Steve, the Socialist argument is total crap. Capitalism left unchecked is not the solution either, with the income disparity greater than any time in memory.
Republicans believe people should be able to survive on minimum wage and be happy with it, while a select few, the ones with the power to win election, run the country.
Let me ask you Steve, if balancing the budget and reducing the deficit are so important to conservatives, why do they resist reductions to the Pentagon, which is notoriously inefficient. Most conservatives will simply write as blank check, for fear if they don't, their "patriotism" might be questioned. That and the fact there's a boatload of money to be made off the contracts. Taxpayer money that is, but that apparently doesn't matter as long as they're waving their flag!
Question the speed of the recovery all you want, but considering Republicans (ask Mich McConnell) spent four years intentionally sabotaging the economy in and effort to make Obama a "one term President," we're not in bad shape!
And as for your post to Mike, about Bush 4 trillion to Obama's 7. Obama had to deal with the wars Bush started, and the tax cuts we obviously couldn't afford, as well as pull us out to recession/depression the Bush administration drove us into! A tall order to be sure!

You make a strong argument for a socialist society, no dought, I'm just not for it!
The disparity has been caused by politicians that try to make things better, only to make them worse, they can't help themselves.
The times in American history that were best for ALL classes of people, were when tax rates and regulation was at a minimum for maximum growth. The democrats just don't look at history to see what works, and socialists don't care and spread lies and propagander to fool the less informed.
We agree to disagree, and as a free loving fan of the U.S. of A., I will never buy into propagander by progressives ( socialists )
Go argue with Mike M. He is very well informed!

I make no such case for socialism. I have no problem with people making good money. The problem with conservatives is they don't feel they need to pay anything back to a society. It's the Ayn Rand, take all you can get, mentality. And screw everyone else. Some society!
Perhaps while I'm talking to Mike, you and Barrett can get together, wave your flags, and try to justify why companies that are supposed be independent rely so heavily on government assistance under the disguise of free enterprise!

Put down that sickle and join us! Taste the freedom!

Steve is no supporter of Bush, yet like most conservatives, while Bush was running up the deficit, he most likely remain quiet, not daring to speak out and be considered"unpatriotic."
Steve, conservatives will only speak out against deficit spending if a Democrat is in office! Reagan was the forefather of deficit spending, and he is revered as your "Great Leader," that should tell you something! He also raised taxes 11 times after his initial cut. Ayn Rand and her self centered summit would not be happy!

Borden, give it a rest, making up the same B.S. and just repeating it over and over and over again will never make it true! I lived threw the Reagan years as an adult, I know the remarkable things he did for this country, and we haven't had a leader that comes even close to his leadership abilities!
He ended the Cold War without firing one shot, he cut taxes in half to give every American the prosperity they deserved, our enemy's respected him as well as our friends around the world, and if he was given a line item veto, there would have been no wasteful spending attached to the arms build up bills he passed!
Your compering 1 trillion dollars in dept in his 8 years that was the fault of the democrats in congress, to almost 7 trillion dollars in just 4 years spent on social " reform" by Obama!
Are you for real?

The facts are, Reagan did raise taxes and did increase the deficit, both taboo in today's conversation.
The cold war was ending, no matter who was president, and the recession he inherited from Carter was nowhere near the disaster as what Obama walked into.

Borden, I've already addressed and explained your first sentence, as for the rest, either you conveniently left out, or you don't know why the Cold War ended.
Reagan knew that the Soviet Union had financial problems at that time because socialism doesn't work, and he built up our military knowing that they would spend dollar for dollar with us. This ran them out of money and they collapsed!
Kind of what is about to happen to us for very different reasons.
As for Obama having a tough situation to start his presidency, it was very simaler to what Reagan had in his first year and we came out of it in about two and a half years and the economy exploded.
This was due to his economic plan! Obama is doing just the opposite and either knowing it will break us, or hoping to get similar results.
That's why we have never recovered, and never will if he continues on the path he is taken us!
Borden, you really need to look back at history to see what works an not be sold on propagander.

Steve Marino: 5 out of the 6 trillion while Obama was president came from Bush policies that did not suddenly stop when Obama was elected. Break down the 6 trillion and you will see for yourself . But I don't believe you'll do that, being quite content with drawing a simplistic conclusion that the debt is there and Obama is there, therefore it is Obama.
Another consideration. It is Congress and in particular the US House that is in charge of the purse strings , not the President . The President under our form of government does not spend ,tax, appropriate or raise any money. Ergo, not Obama.

Tyler, the republican controlled congress has sent dozens of spending cut legislation to the democratically controlled senate, and the senate will not debate any of these bills, and will not even vote on them one way or the other. Obama then tells the American people that republicans won't work with " us "! Who is us?
Although very little of the almost 7 trillion dollars racked up under Obama is part of the Bush legacy, Obama and the democrats could cut ALL of it if it they so chose to do so. That would just mean that they would have to work with Republicans instead of falsely blaming them for something that is just not true.
Apparently Obama is doing a good job selling this, because you sure bought it.
Lastly, the biggest reason for the almost 7 trillion peed thru, is because we have no budget, therefore, spending is out of control. This is on the democratic controlled senate!

"It is Congress and in particular the US House that is in charge of the purse strings , not the President ."

So then TJ when the US House votes to defund Mr 0 - care you will have their backs?

Steve, not for nothing, but it is called propaganda, not "propagander." With that said, I make plenty of mistakes, so who's the criticize.
All that the Republican House proposes is repeal of the Affordable Healthcare act, over and over again. Plus a voucher system for Medicare! The Republican plateform was soundly rejected in November, so the "who is us" is the American voters.
Read up, the Republican Party is fundamentally flawed. They are admitting it themselves, just ask Karl Rove. You are a fractured group, with no clear direction. From immigration to gay marriage to gun control to taxes and spending, Republicans are all over the map. The fact you still hold Reaganomics in such a high regard suggests you're an old school Republican. You should be appalled what this new wave of Tea Party extremists have done to your party! You better think long and hard about why conservatives continue to be marginalized, or the party will continue to lose the popular vote in every election! Here's a little suggestion Steve, following the Tea Baggers further right will destroy whatever is left of the GOP! But, have at it if you must!

Richard Lunt: and the national Debt quadrupled under Reagan. It was under 1 trillion ( about 875B)when Jimmy Carter left office , even with double digit inflation and interest rates. it was close to 4 trillion when the Gipper left. Ronnie preached a balanced budget but never submitted one in 8 years. Nice joke, though; we don't have as many American flag lapel pins as you. So you must be more patriotic.

It is really really difficult to explain away ~ 7 trillion $s when you sit at the top and "sign" the checks. History has a "special" place for Mr 0.

Recent joke I head, have you heard about the Bible, the actor playing satin, spitting image of Mr 0. Satin was asked for a comment, he said: "don't get me involved in this" ;)

Are you upset over the loss of White House tours? Seriously? Well you'll be happy to know that with all the problems facing our country right now, that is the ONLY one the GOP will work on fixing!

Steve Marino: that 6 trillion Obama debt? Here are the Bush era spending that continues and that accounts for it:
Bush tax cuts 1.9 Trillion
Iran & Afghanistan 853 B
Other tax cuts 480 B
Defense 616 B
Non-defense discretionary spending 608B
TARP 224B
Other entitlements under Bush 293B
Unpaid Prescription Drugs Plan D 180 B
Total ongoing Bush policies 5.154 Trillion
Obama can be hooked with 787B Stimulus, and continuing the Bush tax cuts ( signed the extension). Any others , please name them.

Tyler, you list many things here! 1) where did you get these numbers from
2) you only list the things you want to list and not the ones you don't for a full picture.
Get back to me with the rest, and we can debate.
By the way, we never went to war with Iran! Not yet anyway!

Mr 0 takes credit for the good and dodges the bad, he is not a leader, he likes the perks but but is HORRIBLE at the job.

Most recent example:
- b-ball brackets all filled out on time for March Madness (with much fanfare)
- budget 2 (3?) months late (and all his followers don't say boo)

Vincent DiRico: " sit at the top and sign the checks". That's is what CEOs do in corpotations , not Presidents in our system. Vin, you farmiliar with our form of government? The illogic is something out of a tea party monthly meeting. Congress passes legislation , appropriates and spends money, raises taxes. The President has nothing to do with that. The thread here is getting retarded at this point. Satan joke? Like I said, mental institution stuff.

He is captain of the ship, duck, dodge and hide all you like, you CANNOT explain away $7 trillion no matter how hard you try.

Oh look from you favorite liberal rag, the GLOBB

Obama vows line-by-line budget review
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/11/obama_vows_line.html

We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need

OH WAIT, there weren't any budgets!

Steve Marino: should be ' Iraq" , not " Iran". The figures are from the " Non-partisan Center For Budget and Policy, Jan 2012.
I'm not your research assistant; you need to do your own homework to pass the course.
AGAIN , if there are any major Obama initiatives other than what I cited . PLEASE NAME them . Obamacare is a 10 year proposal and does not go into effect until 2014, expected to save money according to the CBO at the end of the stream , not to mention it gives 32 million uninsured fellow Americans the opportunity to get affordable health insurance ( not free). What is wrong with that? You got yours?

Vincent Dirico: I did break down the 5 of 6 trillion . been there ; done that. Reference my detail comment and cite in this thread.
The real test now comes, Vincent . You either address the 5 trillion in particulars or say something dismissive ala tea party response to avoid the reality. Hope to hear , Vincent. Let those intelligent juices flow.

You sure chased off many with those stats, NOT. Your captain is in Jimmy Carter class so you try to explain it all away, $7 trillion will take a lot more of your duck, dodge and hide routine. Moe, Larry, Curly and TJ :O

Where do you get your brown shirt cleaned?

Mike, I agree with you, there are millions more that voted with their hands out then at any time in this once great country's history!
It's really sad what this country has become under this democratic leadership!
The American dream has now become, how much can my country give me for free that is taken from the hard working class of people.
Very sad for those that get up and go to work and pay taxes every day.
Election Day should be changed to April 16th!
Do you think the democrats would go along with this idea?

'... crap Mitt was spouting about 47%.."

You do know that that video was A)Clandestine and a B) PRIVATE fund raising affair? He was speaking to potential campaign donors - NOT YOU. He never implied that any of the 47% would not vote for him - only that they paid no taxes and would therefore have no reason to care if the tax rate went up or down.

Was he incorrect about that observation? How so?

Emcee, mike just posts and runs, you won't get a response!

Robert, just curious if you know who it is that provides jobs to the middle class?

Well at least you don't try to hide from being a socialist like many in the Democratic Party today and I give you credit for that. I just ask you to look at all of the nations that have tried socialism and see how it work out for their people!
Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, and so forth!
Why is it that people that live and lived in these country's tried to escape to come to the United States?
I guess we all know who has been " Brain Washed "!

Oh, by the way, the 80's under the Great leader Ronald Reagan were the most prosperous for All classes of people with low unemployment where anyone that wanted to work could just open up the paper to the dozens of pages of want adds.
When businesses do well, all that work for them do well, just simple economics.
If you were not being treated well by the company that you worked for, you moved to one that did, it was just that easy to improve your situation for those that wanted to.
The key to this is you had to have ambition!
Starting a business then was very easy to do because you didn't need worry about government red tape strangling your company from the start. Those truly were the days that we working people truly miss!
God bless you R.R.! Your vision for this country is sorely lacking!

" Sorely lacking with our leadership today "

Robert,

I am slow on the up-take, where does the government and non-profit organization receive the money they operate with?

The "Great Leader Ronald Reagan." The same great leader who never saw a deficit he didn't like, and actually increased taxes when the trickle down didn't trickle fast enough? Is that the "great leader" you worship? No worry, we understand Steve!
Republicans try and try, but history keeps biting them!

So it was the tiny increases in taxes for adjustment to find where the tax rate should be and not when he cut taxes in half that created decades of prosperity for all the American people? You know what that's called? Revisionist history through the eyes the New Democratic Party! ( socialists ) or progressives, or what ever it is you want to call yourself.

Steve Marino: look up the definition of "socialism" . hate to see you go through life misinformed even though it conveniently fits the brainwash. At least use the terminology in the correct manner. It does'nt help you rightie arguments. Sounds like a right wing lunie , although I must admit you drift in and out . lol

Tyler, so the progressives are not trying to eliminate our capitalist democracy for full control? Sure looks like it with their actions, although you could be right, it could be just utter incompetence! Time will tell!
But thanks for your brilliance and try to stop the name calling, it makes you look really stupid.

Last month, the Senate Budget Committee reports that in fiscal year 2011, between food stamps, housing support, child care, Medicaid and other benefits, the average U.S. household below the poverty line received $168.00 a day in government support. What's the problem with that much support? Well, the median household income in America is just over $50,000, which averages out to $137.13 a day.

To put it another way, being on welfare now pays the equivalent of $30.00 an hour for a 40-hour week, while the average job pays $25.00 an hour.

http://budget.senate.gov/republican/public/index.cfm/budget-background?ID=f1f23669-79fb-4a25-bafc-6a28f82f9c75

Mostly because of the abuse of social programs do we get mad about it. I doubt most would not want people to have the basics and the help they need. It's just the ones sponging off it we hear so much of. I would guess just about everyone knows somebody abusing it. I can think of at least a dozen at the second I know of. Even if we were paying the same money for these services and helping more of who should be getting it would not be so bothersome. With the rich and corperations we sort of know but don't see it unless it's brought up in a newspaper or somewhere or we happen accross it. Some may be close to it and know it. You are right on though, there was no need of the MBTA having that big debt, that should have been addressed when the problem started. Not when it gets so big there is hardly a way out. We pay people to take care of these problems, and quite well, and if we did our jobs the saem way we would have been terminated along time ago.

Steve Marino. I remember those days well! work and prosperity were plentiful. I think the decline started when that great Democrat Bill Clinton, Enacted NAFTA. And as much as I didn't like the guy, Ross Perot's words ring true. There was a big sucking sound as the jobs left. As soon as China saw how easy it was to grab the American's work. it was all gone, So because of the Democratic poster boy (AKA Slick Wille) the jobs are few and far between and the prosperity is gone.. You can do better on Unemployment and welfare than actually working.

We're talking about Massachusetts here, where the graduated personal income tax is prohibited by the state constitution.
Attempts by the tax fattened hyenas on Bacon Hill to amend it have been repeatedly shot down by the voters, most recently by an over 2-1 margin.

"We've already tried that and look at the credit mess and foreclosures that have resulted."

That was directly caused by democrats who forced those racist banks to make loans to people who had no way to pay them back. That's what created the real estate bubble pushing real estate market prices up from the bottom. Thank Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, Franklin Raines, Obama and host of other poverty pimps for the inevitable collapse and foreclosures in the wake of their 'good intentions'.

Right on point Mike!

Yeah, and just wait until Obamacare is fully implemented! Insurance premiums are already skyrocketing across the country.

Isn't it funny how liberals always like to condemn the profits of huge corporations - right up until you mention health insurance companies who Obama handed an exclusive dictatorship to intervene between your doctor and your health?

Over one half of every dollar extracted from you for health "insurance" is divvied up between insurance companies, trial lawyers and government - none of whom do one damn thing to cure anyone - nor are they obligated to do.

Hi Steve: can't resist commenting every time I see inaccuracies. Hope u don't mind. Taxes for the middle class have not been increased at least not a the federal level. Payroll tax deduction was rolled back as of January 2013; it was a Stimulus move that was not extended; both parties agreed. Impact will be about $1,000 more annually, like it was 2 years ago. Spend it on Stimulus - you don't like it; repeal it so we can reduce the national debt- you don't like it. I'm sure FOX did not explain why. i just did.

Spot on Robert. Unless you are in a union, you have seen your compensation levels decline-even as you are asked to obtain new-and-often-expensive skill sets via college-level credentialing.

The Obama administration and the democrats just raised taxes on the middle class workers bosses. Do you really think that these people are going to make more money or better benefits when the people they work for just got more money taken out of their pockets?
It's simple economics, stop playing class warfare and cut taxes for all and you will get the things you need.
The problem is this administration has wasted so much of our hard earned tax dollars, that we are on the verge of bankruptcy.
The only way to survive this pending collapse is to cut corporate taxes deeply to create growth, and raise taxes on the middle class where all the money is to pay down the dept.
We are in no position to do this now because of the nearly 7 trillion dollars that Obama and the Democratic Party has thrown away.
Good luck getting out of this mess now!

The so called "minimum wage" is nothing but a tool for union labor. Virtually all union wages are SCALED to that number. If it is increased 10%, the union steward making $100,00 at company X suddenly makes $110,000. The teenager working at McDonald's gets nothing because she's already being paid above the minimum wage.

The minimum wage should be abolished, it, high taxes and over-the-top regulations are the prime reasons so many factories have left the USA - taking jobs with them.

Sydney, what indicators tell you that we are coming back from the mess they have created and prolonged? We're still at 7.7 percent unemoloyment, the housing market is moving forward slightly, but how could it not? House prices are at record lows and so are the bank rates to buy them with. It has to move up a little, or completly collapse.
Personal income is down 3.6 percent from December 2012.
Where do you see the light?

Exactly! When the Dow hit 10k in 1998, it was the final nail in the coffin of fiat currency. Speculation trumped whatever perceived "real value" was left where the dollar was concerned. We've been conducting our affairs in binary chits ever since.

Mike Mitchell: federal minimum wage is $6.75. Work a week @40 hours you get $270.00 gross; take some takes out you get about $210.00; gas, transportation , lunch , take out about $60 bucks. That leaves $ 150.00 a week. Gonna take healthcare insurance out of that? Get real , man. Getting disgusting at this point.

"Gonna take healthcare insurance out of that? "

-> NOPE, everything free in America!

Have they closed the emergency rooms? stopped taking people into the medicaid programs? closed all health clinics? changed the law to allow emergency rooms to turn you away of you can't pay? ... YOU GET THE IDEA

That you for admitting that you are indeed a socialist or as they call themselves today " progressives"! At least you don't try to hide it and I give you credit for your honesty.
I know you don't agree or care what works in a capitalist democracy so no sense in trying with you, I'm just trying to reach the readers that believe in America, and the freedoms that we are losing because of the current leadership, or lack there of, that we have now.

Corporations actually pay ZERO taxes no matter what the tax rate is. Every dime the government adds to corporate tax is a dime added to the price of whatever they sell to us.

Consider big oil, on average they pay 40% federal income tax on their profit. Follow the money... where did that profit COME FROM? It came from US! We paid it at the pump and the feds get 40% of it.

If THAT isn't recipe for collusion between BIG government and BIG business.. I'll eat it! BOTH of them want gasoline profits to be high, BOTH of them want to stymie small oil companies from putting competitive market pressure on bloated prices. BOTH want to limit supply, (eg - the Keystone pipeline and fracking).

I could turn that around on a dime with a simple change to tax law for energy - tax ONLY on a per unit energy sold basis. The more they sell - the more tax the feds collect thus putting them on OUR SIDE.

Instead of the feds getting more revenue from higher gasoline prices - they would suddenly benefit from LOWER gasoline prices. That would have the feds ENCOURAGING more oil exploration instead of closing it off. Without a tax on profit, corporations would work a lot harder to find ways to lower their prices and compete.

Raising taxes on people that are trying to get ahead ( small buisness owners ) and creating jobs for middle class workers, kills any chance for these middle class people to get ahead. You can't choke the crap out of job creators without it affecting the people that work for them.
Government IS the problem and always has been! When we have less government intrusion on buisness, the middle class do better, It's just common sense!
It's the same concept on big buisnesses, take more away from the creators, hurt the middle class. Capitolism is nothing more then trickle down!
Part of the reason that Wall Street is doing well is because our government has meddled into the free market so deeply that no one can make money with banks, and investment in the market is so strong that big buisness has the resources it needs to succeed. It's unfortunate that many people are FOOLED by the B.S. that is sold to them by the NEW democratic progressives!

Back in the 60's and 70's when the highest tax rate was 70 percent, there were so many deductions that the high bracket taxpayers didn't pay any more then the people that worked for them. Those that took chances and hired employees had the money to treat their workers well. Although there are some greedy business owners, and always will be, most are trying to help those within their organization,for its in their interest to do so to be successful.
So enough with the crap about the rich trying to hurt the middle class, only the uninformed will buy that crap!

"These so-called health insurers go a long way toward explaining why healthcare here is so much more expensive than anywhere else in the world. "

Like I've been screaming since Romneycare, there isn't one insurance company, politician or trial lawyer who has ever cured anyone but now that they have successfully inserted themselves between us and our doctors, they're getting almost HALF of every health care dollar spent!

Mandatory health "insurance" was the most hideous assault on the free market since Stalin. Doctors and other health professionals suddenly saw their number of potential customers plummet from MILLIONS of individuals down to a handful of insurance companies.

Try doing that with bread and see what happens. We all have to eat right? So why not 'guarantee' everyone a cheap loaf of bread every day? Great Idea! We'll all pay $100 a month to an insurance company who sends back coupons to use to collect our daily bread. Oh wait.. there's a 10 cent co-pay.. okay. Oh wait ... they now want $150 a month... no, now it's $200. Ooops! You say there is no bread at the local bread insurance store? Okay, I guess we'll just have to go there and stand in line to wait for the bread truck to come. What's that you say? The farmers are angry because the insurance company refuses to pay them what they used to get so now we have to pay even more? ETC. ETC. .. welcome to COMMUNISM via a surrogate government named "insurance".

Oh, and I forgot to add one more to the senario..

The bread insurance company now claims that the reason for the bread shortage is that sparrows are eating up all the seeds and that's why so many grain fields are now fallow. They've announced a new plan - they'll pay 10 cents for every sparrow you can kill and turn in to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Wall street is a bunch of people speculating on investments. Right now, the laws favor speculating on short term paper profits, (ie day trading) - hollow 'money' where those who make any are only getting it from others who lost it. It produces NOTHING and doesn't create jobs at all.

A factory for any given product takes years to plan, build, start-up, etc. but day traders make their money in seconds. Let's all sell mutual funds to each other and see how things work out?

1. Capital gains should be INDEXED for all capital assets. True investment for factories and other REAL job creating entities take a long time but current tax law PUNISHES those who make long term investments. Also, the way it is now, the government benefits from inflation - take that incentive away from them.

2. Eliminate the double taxation of dividends. If I own X% of company Y then the feds should only get X% tax on the profit ONCE ... not twice. Manufacturing profit is true indicator of JOB CREATION - not stock price. Eliminating the double taxation on dividends would encourage more people to invest in long term investments that actually produce jobs. The more you tax the dividends - the less job creation there will be.

Regulation is a red herring. Nothing to back it up. Just like crying " socialism" without knowing the definition.

Janet:hiollow MBA buzz words. Nothing is stopping you , except when the big corporations outsource and American workers get the pink slips.

Rob - show me the masses of workers currently being paid 'minimum wage' today? WHO? As I already pointed out, even kids working part time at hamburger joints get paid more than minimum wage and they will continue to be paid what they are paid if it is gone. You are either knowingly or unknowingly defending union scale which is the ONLY reason for having a 'minimum wage' in the first place.

The median working US household income today is now LESS than the average welfare per household. That makes the whole concept of a 'living wage' a complete farce.

"Those corporations that pay less than a living wage and move jobs overseas are perpetrating economic terrorism upon the rest of us."

US workers are the highest paid on the face of the earth - even the non-union ones. When the coal mines opened up in western PA farmers from everywhere all rushed to them because it was easier work and for more money than trying to subsist on 20 acres of corn field - NOBODY FORCED THEM!

Yeah, the owners did make out like bandits, like Andrew Carnegie and John D. Rockefeller, but will you PLEASE explain what kind of life all those workers ....and the rest us ... would be living right now if the coal mines had never been mined, if steel had never been made, if electric power had never been developed.. etc.?

Does your Kevin Phillips have an answer to that? Does he count the bounty that follows in the wake of their success? There are only TWO means to produce a surplus, capitalism and slavery. There's no compromise between the two and all the empires that chose slavery, (such as the Roman Empire), are gone. Surplus is the ONLY thing we have with which to care for those who truly cannot care for themselves such as the very young/old and infirm.

So, do you want more surplus or less?

????????!

I'll take that as a compliment!

??????! Your welcome!

Consensus!!!!!!!

Guzuntite!

Just so you know, it appears that the article you linked to as a source was written in 1999 (or maybe 2000). It makes sense that they pin the number of workers employed in small business at 52% at that time, since in was 55% in 1997 and fell to 50% by 2002 as giant corporations Wal-marted their way across the nation, eating up small businesses like a hungry machine. The rate of change has slowed somewhat and as of 2008 it's 49% for small businesses and 51% for large corporations (500+ employees).

Mike, I could never understand why when someone is losing a debate with a conservative, that they always spout something negative about Fox News! ( the most watched news channel )! These people never actually watch it, and just spout crap they heard others say to discredit a news station that gives you both sides of a story, and not just what they want you to here.
The liberal news stations have had a monopoly for so long, and got used to reporting only the part of stories they wanted you to hear to pursue a political agenda, and now they have those bastards at Fox giving us the whole story instead of part of it!
It cracks me up!

I meant that for Indiana!

Amazingly, a quick look at Dining Dad's comment history reveals that this pro-Fox News "Democrat" has posted anti-Obama and anti-union comments, posted a scathing rebuke to a Democratic representative nailed for fraud, and expressed a - shall we say - "highly conservative" position on school uniforms.

Whoa, nobody would ever say on the internet "I'm a (INSERT PARTY NAME)" and lie about their party affiliation to lend credibility to their assertion. THAT NEVER HAPPENS.

Ya, just discredit this poor guy that sees things for what they are because it doesn't fit into your beliefs!

Steve, I couldn't care less what anyone here believes. I pretty much come to Patch to point out the astonishingly absurd idiocy level that is consistently sustained here on a daily basis, and there is no shortage of material. Thanks for your help in this regard, much obliged.

And you just did the same thing!

Hoo boy, the old "I know you are but what am I." That's cutting edge stuff.

Why do you read and post here if you didn't have an opinion that you just gave every reader?

Yeah, I don't understand your question.

You gave your opinion, and then mocked everyone else's like yours is the only one that counts. We're all smart people here, and just have very different political view points, that's all I'm saying.

"Steve, I couldn't care less what anyone here believes."

Talk about stating the obvious...

"Avon Barksdale
3:23 pm on Monday, March 18, 2013
Steve, I couldn't care less what anyone here believes. I pretty much come to Patch to point out the astonishingly absurd idiocy level that is consistently sustained here on a daily basis, and there is no shortage of material. Thanks for your help in this regard, much obliged."

====

HEARTS AND NOTES

Oh wait, that's the other place. I'm ova heah now!

The Dining Dad: you're in a dream world if you actually believe FOX is "fair and balanced." Both MSNBC and FOX are bias. FOX is an arm of the Republican party. media matters estimates that FOX gave Republicans about 53 million in free advertising during the presidential election year. MSNBC was created as a response to the FOX bias to even the playing field

Yes, politics in Texas or Alabama or Florida (teehee) are so much better. Massachusetts RULES!!!

Find health and happiness and move.

Population of Texas increased +3.63% between 2010 and 2012. Massachusetts increased 0.99% In raw numbers, TX +913,642 MA +64,821

In other words a heck of a lot more people who decided to move somewhere else chose Texas over Massachusetts.

They chose it, and they got it!!!

PS The best place isn't necessarily the one with the most people... Discuss...

Well I wasn't saying it under duress. But seriously, don't you think Massachusetts has a lot to be proud of--not merely historically, but now? Great schools public and private, great health care, an open-minded citizenry with an amazing record on civil and individual rights, great libraries, museums, sports, parks, OPPORTUNITIES? Do you really believe you'd be happier somewhere else????? I agree there's corruption in politics, but that's a constant everywhere--it's bi-partisan, and you just don't hear about it in some places... Deep down I'll bet you know that things are POSSIBLE here, more so than in those other, otherwise no doubt admirable, states I mentioned.

I don't understand how people in other states function without Tedeschi's.

Aww, Avon...

Mike Mitchell: Moving to texas, they are immigrants from Mexico. You know, the country next door. Texas is a fascist state , no one goes there anymore.

And the lemmings will re-elect them!

I want pensions for state workers cut dramatically.

I want Beacon Hill staff cut and I want the salaries and benefits for those that remain cut.

I want welfare to go to legal US citizens who have been MA residents for the past 2 years. I want welfare to discourage parents that can’t afford more children from having them rather than encouraging them. No increase in benefits just because you can reproduce.

I want parking attendants and toll takers for the state to make what parking attendants and toll takers would make in private industry. No exorbitant overtime, no pension.

I want merit pay increases instead of seniority-based pay increases. The ability to not get fired is not enough reason to give one a pay raise, especially when unions won’t let us fire anyone anyway.

Probably lots more but no need to list them – we all know the dems won’t cut anything!

This will not entirely address the situation, but let me start here.

Let's NOT build the entire "Unlocking Economic Growth in the Commonwealth" section of the Governor's proposed transportation plan (page 19 of "The Way Forward"). That avoids $3.8 billion of passenger rail capital projects, PLUS we would avoid $21 million in annual operating loss on South Coast Rail alone--and the Governor hasn't estimated or provided for funding operating loss or maintenance for any of these projects. The MBTA will still be running its $140 million annual deficit--we just won't be digging in any deeper.

Seriously, how can the Governor decry the lack of maintenance and then propose a massive system expansion which makes absolutely no provision for the costs to maintain it?

With all our government agencies in the red, why should those that run them continue to receive such large salaries and benefits? If they're unable to maintain a budget and work within their means, I see no reason why they should be rewarded for failure.

To Grommit specifically: Discontinue the EBT program as it's known today and have everyone collecting resubmit an updated suitability application showing that aide is still needed. Stop allowing cash withdrawals from the EBT program. Stop allowing EBT purchases for cigs, booze, lottery, chips, soda, etc...Those are not necessary to live. If you can't afford them, you have to live without. If I can't afford a bottle of booze, I go without. Tell me the difference?

I'm not going to say the government should tell people they need to stop having children. I will say the government shouldn't be giving more assistance to those that continually have children without a means to pay for them. If I make $50k/yr and continually have children, nobody is giving me a raise. Please explain the difference?

UglyHat has great points!!!

Why are pensions guaranteed? How can unions demand this? 401k plans aren't guaranteed. Jobs should not be guaranteed!!

I thought politicians represented individuals, not groups, such as PACs and unions? Ban both from elections. Demand politicians pay for their own marketing.

Grommit,
Pay all state reps and senators same as they get paid in NH and stop paying them to get to work. I don’t get paid extra to get to the office.
End all pensions for new hires, they can invest in a non-matching 401k or IRA like the rest of the workers in the real world.
Police: end ALL details, no point paying overtime for them to sleep in their cars at the side of the road.
Road maintenance: Find out from NH how they can do it better than MA at half the price per mile.
Mass transit: privatize would be first last choice, charge accordingly for a trip if it costs $12 per passenger to get from Lowell to Boston why charge $16 round trip?
Colleges: Look at the payroll, Chancellor of UMASS brought in 785,000 last year, A dean made 665,000
Welfare: Stop lifetime payments, after 5 years no more, stop everything to illegals.
Repeal the prevailing wage law.

That specific enough? That’s just off the top of my head. I am sure if I actually looked at the budget I could find much more.

Mr Grommit:
Starting with the Commonwealth, Merge the District Attorney’s Office with the Attorney General’s Office, The Registry of Deeds and the registry of Motor Vehicles could be moved to city or town’ Clerks Office and the Sherriff Offices could be merged into the Department of Corrections and the civil side could be moved to the Attorney General’s Office or the Secretary of State office, just to name a few government office to cut the cost not the service.

This post says it all! Thank you predator

But that was different. That's what they'll say and everyone will agree. Shame on those who elected this fraud.

Thank you , President Obama. Now if we can only prevent the Republicans from obstructing everything and trying to balance the budget on the backs of the poor, low income, social security recipients ,let the rich and corporations have their loopholes ,tax deferrals, overseas tax shelters, business meal write -offs , off shoring, then we would have something.

Tyler, What budget? The Senate hasn't passed a budget in 4 years! Obama budgets have not gotten a single yea vote in the Senate! What budget?!

PREDATOR: what in the Obama statement in 2006 above do you disapprove of, since you quoted it for some reason?
The fact that the Republicans would not cooperate and compromise , at that time , and provide for a balanced approach so that the debt would not be solved on the backs of the lower income and middle class, allowing the top 1% to get a free ride again? You point is what?
yah, i guess it does say it all.

Tyler...I approve of all of it...you just don't get it do you? I thought you were smart?

Rob C: according to your new found mode of thought, you will stop blaming Obama then?

He was just pointing out how messed up your thoughts are, and that you actually posted them!

I gotta stop posting, I'm having way to much fun!

John lists a lot of cool stuff.

Steve: are you going to get back to me on the 6 trillion? You claim it was Obama. If Obama hasn't presented a budget in your opinion in 4 years, how can it be Obama? Dude, you're all over the place. Drop FOX for about a week to clear your head.

Tyler, your question was already answered several times by Rob C., to you think that I am going to say something different then the factual answers provided by Rob C.?
Are you challenged in some way? Did you not read his response to your question?
What is it?

Is there some disagreement that people posting comments are posting comments?

No commenting in the comments just for the sake of commenting.
They shut down the last thread that had too many commenters commenting in the comments.

A post is a post is a post! Does that help?

Rob C., can you cover for me?, I have to work now and the ignorance is driving me nuts!

I'll keep using his own words against him and throw facts at him. That usually confuses him.

Rob C: maybe you can answer the question I posed to Stevie twice. He neglected to answer twice. had time for the trash talk but not the answer. Since you are filling in for your right wing buddy , maybe you can answer.
Looks like you want to now put all the blame on Congress now? I was Obama not too long ago. Suggest you speak to Speaker John Boehner then, where all revenue bills initiate and the spending/appropriations take place,according the Constitution , Article 1. Too hilarious, Steve's got to pass the ball to you , someone he does not know. hey, dudes, get it together- someone answer.

You were Obama not to long ago? There are actually 2 of you, or was he reincarnated as you?

You posed no question!

See, it's just that we conservatives bond so easily! Who says we don't know each other?

Rob C: Obamacare does not come into effect for all practical purposes until the Market Exchanges are set up in 2014( States can even opt out) . None of that affects the 6 trillion over the prior 5 years. Reference my earlier post - all Bush policy stuff finally coming to the spending level. The other stuff you mention is small potatoes( cash for clunkers - are you serious; auto bailout was a loan that has been paid back, Govt made 3 billion off the deal). Your list adds up to nothing.
Steve: is this what you are referring to when you say Rob C., answered my question. Got to give both u guys a "D", and i'm being generous so you don't have to repeat the grade or drop out.

Who is that Avon? I know for a fact that math is his achilles heel ;)

Your first sentence is incorect! Conservitive care very much about the poor, and are willing to spend for things that work. If government spending is what helps the poor, tell me how that's working out for them now?
When you take class warfare out of the equation, and keep taxes low for All Americans, buisness has more money to take care of the people that work for them, and can hire the poor to give them hope.
It really is just that simple! It doesn't take rocket science to figure this out, just look honestly back at history to see what has worked in the past, and try to get past what your being sold!
Why do liberals think that conservatives don't care about the poor? We care very much, and want to see them have the best opportunities to succeed. We just know that the way to make this happen,is to do what history has showed us that has worked. You can't do the opposite and hope to get the same results!

Eisenhower, Nixon, the Bushes apologize for conservatism; they qualify their commitment, such as conservatives should be economic, but conservatives with a hart; or a conservative when it comes to economic problems but liberal when it comes to human problems, in other words they called for progressive conservatism

“The root difference between the conservatives and the Liberals is that Conservatives take account of the whole man, while the Liberals tend to look only at the material side of a man’s nature. The Conservative believes that man is, in part, an economic, an animal creature; but that he is also a spiritual creature with spiritual needs and spiritual desires.” (The Conscience of a Conservative)

Robert, the "war on poverty" was started in the 60's by Johnson and is a 100% failure! Like the "war on drugs" it failed because the government isn't the place or lever to affect that type of change. It has to be local and it has to have a social aspect. Johnson's great society has caused more harm than good. It has removed the stigma of being pregnant out of wedlock with no means to support yourself and the baby. It has removed the stigma of a man walking away from their kids without support. It has removed personal responsibility and self sufficiency. In short it has caused more poverty and more generational poverty. Look at the murder rates in Chicago and the single parent household numbers for those neighborhoods. There is a direct correlation!

I love how the progressives have venomous hatred toward Ronald Reagan's remarkable leadership. It kind of reminds me of when the patriots won the superbowl and Tom Brady threw the ball 50 times and had 45 complete passes out of the 50 he threw that day to win the game.
The progressives say that Brady hurt the team by throwing 5 incomplete passes that day. What we all didn't know was that these progressives are fans of a different team!

As to your other question of me, when do I stop blaming Obama? I laythe blame where I see it needs to go. I sent plenty Bush’s way and plenty Obama’s way. Maybe if Obama starts to take responsibility for things instead of blaming others for everything I could cut him a little more slack.

Rob C. Congress makes laws . SCOTUS interprets laws.

I was hoping that he would already have the paperwork filled out in the morning when we meet. I thought we would just sign it and file it together in the true sign of bi-partisanship that this very serious matter of unconstitutional law deservers.
Maybe you could meet us there as well and join in the suit.
This matter deserves attention from everybody.

Rob C: I won't be signing any legal documents with you. You forget, dude. I'm the opposition. besides the brief would too long for your to type on your IBM typewriter and whiteout.

Rob, he only asks questions, not answer what he can't!

Rob C.: let me refresh your memory. The initial discussion from Steve was that "Obama" increased the National Debt by 6 trillion ( typical and constant right wing anti-Obama rhetoric). I reminded both of you that the "policies" that caused the increase were Bush policies to the tune of 5 trillion of the 6 trillion and I provided the the detail and the cite. Ref my comments above.Steve passed the buck to you in a sarcastic remark directed at me , then you failed to answer. I thought your reply here would cover that.
I also pointed out that from a constitutional perspective , it is Congress that controls the purse strings (Article 1 & 8 among others). The President can suggest via State of the Union message . But you know all this.
The budget process and all the revenue bills initiate with the Congress, House of Representatives in particular, not the President. Not me saying that. The US Constitutions provides for that.
As to your statement : " Obama hasn't passed one in 4 years" . Presidents don't pass budgets, Congress does. First 2 years? Ever hear of the Republican Senatorial filibuster , 60 votes required to do anything? Last 2 years? It's called Republican obstructionism. Ask Mitch McConnell and the 80 or so tea party reps.
I asked about the detail of the 6 trillion . You both passed the buck on that one .
Focus on that before you beat this thing to death . The six trillion.

That is some way to pass the buck once again there Tyler.
I say it is Obama spending 6 trillion and you say Obama can’t spend.
You say Bush ran it all up yet I refer you to your previous answer that Obama can’t spend.
Since Obama and Bush both have same job then you have answered in the truest form of political double speak.
Now I asked a question that has only a one word answer, I’ll ask it again.
Who is responsible for spending, Congress or the President?

As to the Budget, the law is that the president presents one to congress, congress presents one of their own and they work out the differences.
A TRUE leader would get together with congress and pass a budget that all parties can agree on. A true leader we do not have in Obama. He supplies a budget that doesn’t get a single vote even from his own party. Reid refuses to bring forward a house passed budget for a up or down vote, yet you place all the blame on Mitch. As I have stated before plenty of blame on both sides but you place all the blame in one place.
This is not how you run a business or a country.

Still no answer over on the other article.
It is another easy question for you to answer, its OK to answer, everybody already knows the answer. Just want to hear it from you.

Rob C. your question has been answered. Congress spends; the 5 of the 6 trillion during the Obama years reflect Bush policies and initiatives.
Let me put to you this way in substantive terms:
Did Obama invade Iraq?
Did Obama invade Afghanistan?
Did Obama pass the 1-1.5 trillion in Bush tax cuts in 2001 & 2003 ?
Did Obama push TARP?
Did Obama promote the unpaid for Plan D Medicare prescription drug coverage ?
Did Obama increase defense spending by 600 B that is now being spent?

How come you don't list all of the money Obama has wasted and where it went?
I know it would be in hard back, but give it a try instead of just trying unsuccessfully to blame others like your hero. If you start now, we can all read it by Christmas!
How's that 900,000,000,000.00 that he sent to the states to bail out the irresponsible politicians that promised things to the unions that they could not provide to them?
Oh, I guess they can give it to them now, he just sent our money to them to fulfill his promise, and then he got their votes!
Here, I gave you a good starting point, so get on with it, and we'll talk in December!

Tyler,
Did Obama invade Iraq? No
Did Obama invade Afghanistan?
He strongly advocated for the invasion of Afghanistan and still does. He could easily pull all the troops out with the simple stroke of a pen, yet he does not.
Total cost to date both wars 1.4 trillion. And that is 4 years after Bush has left office. As commander in Chief Obama could have stopped that cost on day one. No pass there on that continued spending.

Did Obama pass the 1-1.5 trillion in Bush tax cuts in 2001 & 2003 ?
He was a lonely community organizer back then. The Bush tax cuts were put in place to help the public out of a recession that he inherited from the Clinton administration. However you never heard him complaining about it the way Obama has been. By the way, tax revenue went up after the tax cuts so that 1 – 1.5 T is a non-existent number you pulled out of where your head is.

Did Obama push TARP? Actually he did.
http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/President/US/Barack_Obama/Views/TARP/
TARP was a bailout of banks as a loan and has been largely paid back with interest.

Did Obama promote the unpaid for Plan D Medicare prescription drug coverage ?
80 Billion a year cost, could easily be recouped by getting rid of the fraud in the system that neither party wishes to do anything about.

Did Obama increase defense spending by 600 B that is now being spent?
\Actually he did. As commander in chief he could have pulled troops back to the US from all bases worldwide.

And here is a perfect example of a good brain washing! WOW!

@Somerville Girl - My grandparents worked multiple jobs so their children (my parents, aunts and uncles) could eat and have some clothes. A job is job. You're not making enough, get another job. Having compassion for humanity has nothing to do with lazy people not taking a job because it's not the corner office. I don't want to flip burgers, so I'll live off others. Your entitled mindset is what's wrong with society.

Somervillegirl,
Please include a link as to the exact law that states that if somebody cant find a job it is up to the government to supply them with one.
Maybe in Soviet Russia that was the case but not here in the USA. Here we have the opportunity to rise up above, out of nothing and make it big. All you have to do is get up off your lazy butt and achieve what you want to.
If I had to take a job pumping gas to pay the bills until the big paying job I wanted came along then I would do that. Maybe it is because I have pride in myself and do not want to live off the government that makes me what to do that. I don’t know.
Look at Warren Buffet, started out as a paperboy and look at him now. If you put your mind to it you can achieve whatever you want.
Do not blame the big banks and the evil Republicans because you cant rise up and make it big.
Nothing is stopping you from getting out and starting your own empire.
Anybody can do it.
But then again, if you just want to scrape by collecting money from the government living day to day, then do not come here and complain about your life to us. It was your choice to live the way you do.
Don’t tell me you cant because you couldn’t afford school, plenty of business owners did not go to school. They made it on their own without the help of handouts from the government.

SomervilleGirl,
I will add to my comments after re-reading your post. I was on my own at 18, worked two and sometimes three jobs. Paid for college and graduate school without loans. Had three kids and paid or am still paying for all of them to attend college. I worked hard and earned everything I have and do feel for people who are truely needy.I pay more in taxes than many people make.I only ask that it be spent wisely. I give to charities as well. I have problems with people like you who blame others and see a great conspiracy out there that is causing all your problems. We all make choices in life and have to deal with lay-offs. job loss and other problems. If you really think most of the Dems are for the middle class think again. Two many people don't want to work and want to take, The fact that Obama won does not mean anything to me other than he was able to convince people that he was for them. He is determined to undermine the system and people like you who want to buy into the position that it is all stacked against them voted for him. I chose to not buy this position and I chose to make my own way. I can't comment on your situation but please do not make assumptions about me based upon where I may live or what I make a year.

"fresh" indeed

this is even fresher: "make up for the difference in pay by overusing credit " a constant cry from SG / Liawatha / ... (those suffering dem-dementia), the credit card / mortgage company made me do it, boo hoo

but this tidbit sure takes the dem-dementia cake: "Bush lead the charge to make filing for bankruptcy more difficult", once again boo hoo, it is Bush's fault

extra dem-dementia points if you can identify the movie this line is from: gimme gimme gimme I need I need I'm doing the work, I'm not a slacker

Robert, why don't you just work yourself into the upper class? You sure would make things easier on you wife!

You cannot even suggest that someone learns history here without being censored....reality bites eh progressives? Eliminate any drags on society today?

my young daughters say: "you are the other word for donkey" ;)

and that word does appear above in a different comment, strange.

Seems he is following the lead of other progessives before him....Margaret Sanger and George Bernard Shaw....and lets throw in Woodrow Wilson too.

Just work yourself into the upper class and stop this misery on yourself and wife!
Why keep complaining when you have the ability to join them?
Freedom allows for it! Just go for it, your wife will love the expensive wines.

How will we be able to refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots if we don't have any guns?

Steve Marino: you neglected the issue Robert raised - income inequality. rising up , getting three jobs does not solve that, Horatio Alger stories notwithstanding.
PS: still waiting for you to address the Obama 6 trilion you initially raised. I gave you the detail ; I gave you the cite; I gave you the constitutional references. Nothing from you. Steve , the 6 trillion.

Ms. Somerville: What is everyone's fair share in taxes?

SomervilleGirl,

I have read your many comments with interest and appreciate both your passion and detail.
However, I must say you just seem to be very angry and now it seems that you want to blame the great WS conspriracy for what is not right with your life. The melt down hurt a great number of people and if you just want to blame the people on WS or CEO's you can not leave members of both parties out. Also, while there are real people who lost houses and retirement accounts through no fault of their own, there are many who bought houses they could not afford and knew it.

I think you lose some of the value of your comments when you attack others who you think live in places that are not Sommerville, and who may be more successful. BTW, I have nothing against where you leave, my son lives there and is not interested in leaving.

Somerville Girl
It was when the government along with community organizers who stepped into the real estate industry and forced banks to give mortgages to unqualified buyers that had a hand in the fall of real estate market. In addition, the small companies with a few hundred employees are moving into right to work states. This keeps them from paying more taxes and union taxes that supports non-profit corporation who receives tax dollars then use the courts to increase the corporation cost or close it. For instance, there has not been a new oil refinery built since the seventies because of government and non-profits. Yet, automobiles have quadrupled. By the way, I reached into my savings the other day and bought extra gas to visit Somerville; the illegal day workers are still meeting at Foss Park, after all Somerville is a sanctuary city. There was a report the other week welfare people receive about $62,000.00 a year in benefits, not bad. As for parents who are paying college tuition for kids who can’t find jobs and are still leaving at home; sorry, the kids should be out of the house there are good paying jobs outside of Massachusetts. My kids have left Massachusetts for employment. Maybe the parents should have paid for college tuition that would produce a job.

You can choose to do anything that you want with your life including bettering yourself to any level you see fit, the problem is you just don't know that this is up to you, not elected officials!
You should probably stop making fun of other people that you know nothing about if you want people to take you serious!

Thanks Ron.
I am well aware of how Tyler is. I just find amusement in pointing out the many flaws in his thinking.
If he doesnt like the answer to a question he is asked he will just run and hide, probably pretend he didnt see the question.

Tyler is a fruit cake! He posts and runs and does not have the ability to answer simple questions posed to him, so he just asks either ridiculous questions that are impossible to answer, or made up stuff!

hmmm -> duck, dodge AND hide ;)

Lieutenant Duck Captain Dodge and Major Hide
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtvBPjvd2b4

ron johnson : quit the ignorance. I don't do people's homework for them . Your jumping in without any information . Care to check the threads , anything asked has been answered , although the recipient may not like the answer. This disparaging BS from you is juvenile. If you can name something here where there has been a lack of response on my part , let's hear it .
Personal attacks have no place here; quick to put people down that do not agree with you. and this gang up stuff , soliciting this buy in stuff from others is typical bully trash. stick to the facts , add something to the conversation .

Steve Marino: dido , my remarks to ron johnson. you know what they say- can't combat the argument , attack the person. You can dispense with the " fruit cake " remark, nitwit.

To be fair to Tyler, I never really answered the question, I just pointed out the flaws in his “logic”
We need to have Tyler’s answer to the question of who is responsible for spending, Congress or President so that we can answer the question he poses. However he won’t answer the question because either way he answers, it looks bad for the Democrat party and he knows it.

If he answers the President then he knows he has been wrong all along in saying that it is not Obama that spent 6 trillion in 4 years.

If he answers Congress, then that opens up a whole different field of blame on the Democrats. It clearly exonerates Reagan as the big spender he says he is, as Dems controlled congress back then. His other argument of Clinton leaving a surplus to Bush and having it blown is a false argument as that would have been Gingrich and the Republicans who produced the surplus. The fact that the surplus was blown because of 9/11 is irrelevant to him. Also after the tax cuts went in place, the fact that revenue went up seems to escape his memory.

So who is it Tyler, President or Congress?

It has been reported many times that the intelligence community got a lot wrong on Iraq. According to most liberals, Bush is dumb. So I think you're giving him too much credit for creating the big lie. And the Iraq war was approved by Congress - Democrats included. But no blame there from the left.
Not sure why one would think those who have succeeded in life must have robbed others to get it. And which employees have been stripped of their competitive salaries and benefits? Perhaps maybe the Chinese workers who assembled your iPhone, iPad, and iPod that you cherish.

Six trillion for Iraq. The phony war that sent national debt soaring. All of it on Bush/Cheney/Halliburton. I think we all know it took more than just Bush to go into Iraq

People cannot get ahead by honest means. The system is rigged and republicans will not be happy until all middle call is in poverty. I have to disagree, now you just sound envious and bitter. Also if everyone is in poverty, who will buy the goods the evil republicans make?

Fool and his money.... Uh..

Those who have gained millions did it by robbing the middle-class, and employees who have been stripped of their competitive salaries and benefits. When you can say you do not buy clothes and electronics you can get off your high horse and say that with a straight face. Even if you are driving an "American" car chances are some of it was made in another country.

Many who do aquire wealth through their businesses get there by committing fraud and have lawyers make it look legal. Now you are just trying too hard. The fact is most business owners work hard and create jobs and many of them do care about their employees. If you do not work for a company like that, then that is just too bad.

six trillionn for Iraq? http://costofwar.com/ Its at 800 billion now and that is 4 years after Bush was out of office.
The Soviets, French, British, Isreali inteligence are all in the pocket of Halliburton also?
I suppose all these people werehad it wrong too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i87cZ3Og6ts

Even Sadams generals were surprised to find out there were no weapons.

I did not agree with the Iraq war but dont go spreading lies about it.

Whoa Mr. G. You don't convict the person who fell for the ponzi scheme, you convict the person that perpetuated the fraud. Congress was led to believe that there was an imminent WOMD threat from Iraq and they learned that from Bush and Powell. Bush uttered the 16 words in the state of the union that basically moved everyone to go to war. Was it the responsibility of everyone watching to know that he was basically full of S**T? You can feel free to criticize the current president, but let's not kid each other about Bush 2 and the Iraq War. He intentionally let us to an unnecessary war with Iraq by suggesting to the country that they had weapons of mass destruction. The country and congress agreed based in part by inaccurate intelligence reports (Yellowcake). Congress (the press, most citizens) looked the other way because everyone was itching for a fight in retribution of 9/11, but it was Bush that led everyone there. Stupid or not.

Mr. Steve: Bush deserves criticism, but not conviction. Congress had the same intelligence and came to the same conclusions. As did our allies. The intelligence failed us on that one, just like they did on 9/11.

Yes, Somerville Girl, with help from the Democrats, the Republicans sent the national debt soaring. However, as for the war, ask any woman over there who could not leave the house without a male, man or child, if the war was phony? Furthermore, it is liberals that tend to look only at the material side of man’s nature. .Liberals in the name of a concern for human beings-regard the satisfaction of economic wants as the dominant mission of society. They are in a hurry to harness the society’s political and economic forces into a collective effort to compel progress. Conservative take account of the whole man, they believe that man is, in part, an economic, and animal creature; but that he is also a spiritual creature with spiritual needs and spiritual desires. Conservatism is not an economic theory, though it has economic implications. It is conservatism that puts material things in their proper place—that has a structured view of the human being and of human society, in which economics plays only a subsidiary role. (The conscience of a Conservative)

Rob C: no one , not me, is proposing that we spent 6 trillion in Iraq. 2003 to 2012 about 1.2 trillion direct costs and many studies add another 1 trillion in indirect costs . you know, Va care, stuff like that. So don't misrepresent . The 5 of 6 trillion debt i detailed but you continue to ignore and raise further questions I already answered . chechk the thread more carefully. Viz. response to Steve M.

Rob C, and the rest of the clanking, corseted conservatives still desperately trying to spread the blame (and the cost) of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on people outside the corrupt and treasonous Bush cabal--WAKE UP!!! Who gives a flip if even Saddam's generals were surprised yadayada. Bush and Cheney and Rove and Rice started it all, and committed us in HUMAN and financial terms, and it WASN'T too long ago to talk about (we're still paying for it EVERY DAY), and YOU stop lying about it, Rob C.! (And your great nemesis, President Obama, now in his SECOND term, was NEVER for the war in Iraq. NEVER.)

Woopsy, Mr. G., our bad. I agree, no conviction when it comes to George Bush. That is, that particular president, the "nadir" president in the history of US presidents, certainly had no convictions...

John, stop with all these facts, it's really pissing off the people trying to tell stories!

Hey Steve:I said the market exchanges do not go into effect until 2014. Don't start. reading comprehension? Talk to your private insurance carrier. My medications went down in price. Nothing to do with taxes. I guess I can state that Obamacare caused that. first of all , demonstrate that thee is a direct correlation , and then quantify the amount, and extrapolate cost savings that are attributed to more taxes paid to the federal government. Otherwise you are talking rag time.

BRAVO !!! I agree with you. Way too much babying of kids today.

John Merrett: are you serious ? Something out of the tea party playbook? Care to explain the "slavery "reference. Look forward to you explanation. i get accused of not timely responding , so i am sure you will lest the same parties will accuse you of the same thing.

If John Merrett were any more superficial, inaccurate, and silly, The Patch might become The Onion and we could all lighten up.

I hope that a member of your family reads your posts and gets you the help you need.

SommervillGirl: I read and examined every line . There is not one sentence that is not accurate and revealing. Unfortunately , some in the audience here come with closed minds. They give the tea party types a free ride- conspiracy theories, government tyranny, gun confiscation, misread the 2nd amendment, Obama incompetent( American people then must be stupid since they re-elected him overwhelmingly, naysayers are the only smart ones if we would only listen to their outrageous theories ), those that deny millions of Americans healthcare because they feel ( one commentor actually said this) that because their wife's birth control is now free , this is cause to repeal Obamacare- best they can come up with . The list goes on. Next will come the ridicule and personal attacks . That is what they do best . Character assasinations they specialize in.

So you both believe that 9/11 was an inside job?

Here's an interesting factoid for you SVG, 43% of your reviled top 1% household incomes all reside in 7 counties surrounding Washington DC.

They are the ones stealing the money and the reason they can is because of brainwashed people who think WS is somehow taking it from you. WS has no power to take your money - a huge bloated federal government DOES. Unless you were swindled by Bernie Madoff or something, HOW did WS take money away from the poor to make them poorer? I want some examples....

TJ "re-elected Obama overwhelmingly"? What are you smoking? Obama is the only president in recent history re-elected with a SLIMMER popular vote margin than the one that he had for his first term. 3.85% in 2012 (some 'mandate huh?) versus 7.27% in 2008.

For comparison, Nixon won his second term by a popular margin of over 23% - THAT.... was a MANDATE! (He ended the Vietnam war and the draft.)

TJ - There's no need for anyone to demean your character, you doin a fine job all by yourself. Obamacare wasn't about guaranteeing health care to anybody, (anyone could walk into an ER and free care ans they still can) , the purpose was to REDUCE COST - that was how it was billed to the public and that is the NAME of the act itself: The "AFFORDABLE Care Act"

There is no description suitable for print to describe your vile misrepresentation of the truth.

"saw the detonators going off on each of the floors"

-> I hear Cyprus is looking for a few new citizens, get lost!

Mike Mitchell: I know you don't like Obamacare ( you're covered , right?), because it has Obama's name in it , but don't distort the Act. It's "affordable" so that 33 million uninsured Americans can go into a market exchange where healthcare insurers will compete for their business and pay an affordable rate ( no free) , like many working poor now that do not have coverage. Something vile about that?. Has nothing , absolutely nothing, to do with costs. I have to explain that to you at this point? That is the business of the healthcare insurers who have done a bad, bad, job trying to keep costs down ( remember they are in it for the profit) . Talk to the healthcare CEOs, doctors, medical suppliers, and hospitals . We don't have a socialist form of healthcare ( unless you're going the Tea Party, Constitutionalist, or Minuteman Militia route on us now- you know how whacky they are. ) . The private sector sets the rates , not " Obama". Dispute that? Obama is your President and not a CEO now.

You don't know "everyone else", and you sure as heck don't speak for them, so shut up.

I am truly sorry, I didn't mean to include the uniformed dopes!

Are you truly sorry? Show it by being more open-minded. Stop wagging your arrogant tongue at everybody who feels differently about things than you do. And "dopes" is a term you should probably avoid...

Nah nah, nah nah nah! I can't help myself, I normally try not to us derogatory comments about dopes, but what else do you call a dope?

Well I tried to help you.

Where did all the oil and natural gas that Bush and Cheney stole go? Did they take it home?
If you don't like this country so much, why don't you move to a country where everyone except the ruling class is created equal and gets the same stuff? ( dirt )!
I have a few for you to choose from that follow your beliefs.
1) Cuba
2) North Korea
3) to late for the Soviet Union, they collapsed because socialism/ communism always fails in time
4) China, oh scratch this one too, their smart enough to know that socialism/ communism doesn't work, so they are moving toward capitalism, using the USA model that you disagree with!

SVG,
I dont want to nit pik but please The Bible does NOT say money is the root of all evil. It clearly states "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". There is no where in the Good Word that states having money is evil. How you obtain that money is....

I was just trying to help her get to one of the country's that has the same beliefs as her!
This is still a free country in which ANYONE that wants to improve their lot in life can do it with a little ambition. She doesn't believe people do it for themselves, and thinks that the government does it for them. This country is just not a good fit for her!
She's driving herself nuts!
Only trying to help, she telling the world she needs it!

Every white male was invented by a white woman.

Not sure I should credit or pity you for signing your name to this post. Life as you've known it is over. That is not a bad thing, for the rest of civilization anyway.

In an ice age, the further away you are from the equator the more ingenious you are going to have to be to survive, (fire, tools, etc). Doing it for 50000 years might have evolved some differences. Just a theory .....

"Every white male was invented by a white woman."

..and they even 'invented' some well known half white ones too!

What? I suppose you think people like Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot, Idi Amin, Saddam Hussein or Nero fell off trees like bad fruit? I'm pretty sure they all had mothers...

It's probably the most intellectually cogent comment you've ever posted. I suggest you quit while you're on top.

"Promote Peace Among Nations" Hillary Clinton? BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA! Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi (+ DPRK nukes, Egypt Muslim Brotherhood al Qeada ties, arms to Syria, etc. )

"Force Corporations and Wealthy to pay taxes for job creation" As though taxing corporations more helps them hire more people? HUH?????? If true let's tax them 100%! That ought to be the perfect solution!

"Create programs to educate our youth so they do not end up with unwanted pregnancies " = Code for "instead of teaching abstinence we'll hand out free condoms/BC and tell teens to do whatever they want regardless of what their parents might tell them"

"WALL STREET BONUSES TOTALING BILLIONS" It was never your money to begin with, PROVE they somehow took it from you? It was a DEMOCRAT controlled Congress, both houses, that come up with "too big to fail" and took YOUR money to give to thieves like AIG and Golden Sachs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/26/goldman-sachs-aig-backdoor-bailout_n_814589.html

IMO, if you're going to be an effective shill for the radical left you're going to have to do better SVG.

"but when ..." Please reference such comments, there must be some other list you are disagreeing with here - name, link?

Oh look! There goes another lie Obama told you - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/new-guantanamo-prison_n_2928885.html

No. It's OK to be a liberal racist so long as you judge white men by the color of their skin. That's from the folks that preach tolerance.

You are correct....it is OK to be a Progressive Racist....look to the Black Panthers, Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, Woodrow Wilson, George Bernard Shaw....just to name a few.

The rent in Cambridge is too high. Section 8 goes a lot further in Somerville.

Met one such looser the other day....about 45 years old or so....other than a little overweight...nothing wrong with him. I asked him why he doesnt work and sits around his sister's apartment all day watching reruns....he looks at me and says "I never have".

NEVER!

@Predator - I'm no fan of Senator Pocahontas, but if you read what the Feds are doing to the New England fishing industry, I think you'd have a different opinion on this. I have a very good friend who is a commercial fishermen, and it's scary to hear what these guys are up against.

This is a perfect example of men and women who WANT to work, but are UNABLE to because of the environmental wackos and an overreaching federal government that uses faulty and outdated science to determine the state and health of the New England fishing industry.

Google search some of these topics: Catch Shares, Commercial draggers fishing Stellwagen Bank, NOAA Admin Jane Lubchenko, National Marine Fisheries Service, and the Reduction of Quotas. I'll try and get some exact links for you from my friend. Believe me, you'll be astonished as to what the Feds are doing to the centuries old mom & pop business.

I think you might misundersatnd my point....why file a bill to bailout an industry....when it is easier to file a bill to let them DO THEIR JOBS! Jobs the government is preventing them from doing in the first place!

Exactly Predator!!

I did misunderstand your post. My apologies. G'day

Joseph, now the commercial fishermen know how the employees at the dog tracks here must have felt when the voters of the Commonwealth put over a 1,000.00 union employees out of work. Where were all the Big Union brothers and sisters from the AFLCIO, the Trade’s council and SEIU? No one stepped in to help them when an animal rights’ group located in Somerville MA helped put over a 1,000.00 workers on the unemployment line. It wasn’t politically correct to help workers who assisted in dog racing. Warren’s bill for the fishermen is just a smoke screen. She is will not go against environmentalist who are pulling the strings in the back ground. “Government Can Only Help Some by Hurting Others”

Dan, employees at the dog track arent putting their lives danger trying to earn an income. I would hardly compare a job at the track with the job of a commercial fisherman. I understand what you were getting at, but there are very few jobs that go through what a commercial fisherman goes through.

Dear Kitchen Sink, Fact Check!! I looked at the chart. It shows "total spending" as $83.6, and "welfare" as $8.2. That's 9.81%, NOT 25% as you claim.

There's no chart showing at that web site when you go there from the link you provided. (what did you click from there?)

Looking at this however - http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/piechart_2013_MA_state (you have to click on the "State" among the 5 selections Total Federal State Local StateandLocal just below the menu tab)

It shows 15% for MA welfare cost in a pie chart. Regardless, as you say, when you factor in healthcare etc. the % gets a lot bigger.

Another site for data - http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco_wel_cas_tot_rec-economy-welfare-caseloads-total-recipients

Stephen, the problem is welfare spending can be divided between the cost paid by the state and localities versus the federal. It's unclear to me if the federal is being included because - after all - we tax payers are providing ALL of the dollars being spent. (Not like the man in the moon is paying for those federal doallrs..)

Mike. I won't argue the amount paid to welfare overall, and whether those people should contribute in anyway (or get free stuff), my point was FACTS, and only with facts can people make real judgements - unless they are predudice - ignoring the facts. Kitchen Sink was simply not correct. I vote for people who are honest, not the politician who says "Don't look behind the curtain", as many, if not all, politicians do, and certainly my vote will not be moved by non-facts from such as Kitchen Sink.

No specifics, nothing. Seems like House Republican Leader Bradley Jones is just setting up things/garbage/news/making headlines/etc for the new senate race. Politics as usual, NO FACTS, just sticks and stones. Did I mention lies? ie, Michele Bachmann

Stephen, now you're showing your true colors. A reporter got wind of an ethics charge, the one making the charge is tight lipped as IS correct until an investigation releases to details either way, and here are you complaining about him following protocol.

Let me guess, if Jones was a democrat you'd be complaining about the reporter not Jones?

..and a strong influence on the stomachs of the strong minded as well.

What is wrong with spending time on here throughout the day living on our pension, bonds and 401K’s while you are at your government, or non-profit corp job all day? We earned it. Just investing in cheap Somerville real estate was a good pay off; however, had to sell some of it before last year in order to save the 3% tax on the sale of real estate.

The opportunities in education are out there and the pregnancy spirals out of control is a system the Department of Tarnishes Assistance along with the unions promote to keep government and non-profit corp. employees working. I can remember speaking to a young girl, in East Somerville, who wanted to become an unwed mother to get an apartment in the Mystic Ave Government Housing complex. She wasn’t look for protection after learning the ropes in school about government assistant for young unwed mothers. With assistance she is receiving about $62,000.00 a year from government benefits, how much does section 8 pay for a two bedroom apartment in Somerville?

Warren is not going to do anything. She looked tough for about five minutes grilling a bunch of bankers. That will be the extent of her achievements.

Do you support just throwing anyone who works on Wall St. in jail? How about some valid charges and a fair trial?

And yet, when she looks at your future, she says, you'll go far...

Tip O’Neil was a (Socialist) hiding in the Democratic Party. From speaking to retired government workers, many have lost most of their social security retirement benefits that they paid into because they receive a government pension while their counterparts receiving a pension in the private sector are allowed social security retirement benefits. By the way, warren is one of them (WS people)where else can you work at a non-profit teaching one class and receiving over $400,000.00 a year.

Furthermore, while visiting both Democratic and Republican State Committee meetings, saw more elites wearing $3,000.00 outfits at the Democratic side not the Republican side. The myth of the Republican Party is the party of the big money is falsehood that the Left progressive (socialist) that help Roosevelt get elected has been propaganda for years.

Uh...I think you're being a little extreme. I can think of some pretty sick people who trump any Wall St. greed hound (Hitler, Pol Pot, etc.)

But we get it. You live in Somerville, you're super liberal, you hate money. Cool.

If you are sooo against cronyism then why do you have such disdain for the TEA Party like me who want federal government to respect our Constitution and stop giving ANYONE welfare or loans with our money? (Except in a time of declared war) Doesn't that solve the problem? It eliminates the "too big to fail" crap and puts it up to each state to provide whatever help they want to whomever they want in a more local setting bringing control closer to we the PEOPLE.

Federal government is WAY too big and has way too much control which is what true liberals used to hate but now it seems you go out of your way to help thieves like Obama who want to make bigger and have even more control over us.

Go back and watch re-runs of "All in the Family".

It was your hero Barney Frank who demanded we force banks to write mortgages to deadbeats that then were bundled by large banks trying to unload them.

By Eliot Spitzer, what a joke!
Why don't you go ask Castro how it went down?

SG, You need to learn history and stop listening to liars. In 2003 the Bush administration saw the coming collapse and the role Fannie and Freddie played. They proposed an agency to oversee and audit both. Barney Frank said at the time...
”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”’

“In 2003, he called Fannie and Freddie ‘fundamentally sound financially’ and accused the Bush Administration of trying to “exaggerate a threat of safety… [to] conjure up the possibility of serious financial losses to the Treasury, which I do not see.

“A year later, he said talk of financial problems at Fannie and Freddie were ‘an artificial issue created by the administration…I don’t think we are in any remote danger here.’"

Remember too that Barney's ex boyfriend was Herb Moses who worked for Fannie and with Frank to write legislation protecting them!

"Bush adm. looked the other way.. did nothing to protect American homeowners."

In your face liar:

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/09/18/ny-times-sept-2003-bush-proposed-tightening-oversight-of-fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-the-democrats-of-congress-blocked-it/

"The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. "

… Among the groups denouncing the proposal today were the National Association of Home Builders and Congressional Democrats who fear that tighter regulation of the companies could sharply reduce their commitment to financing low-income and affordable housing.

”These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. ”The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

More in your face:
John McCain warned us May 26, 2006

Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

..... Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. ......over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress ......... These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

Thank you for proving that the economic suffering we have had the last four and a half years is the fault of the Democratic Party! Good work Mike M.!
God, this must really piss off all the know it all's that have been posting to the contrary!

It started with Bill Clinton, and ended with Barney Frank, and Chris Dodd!
I was unaware that the Democratic Party tried to stop the Republican Party from trying to stop this collapse well before it happened. Thanks again Mike M. For showing everyone the facts!

SG, you need to open your eyes and stop believing everything the DNC says and writes. Spitzer ran up 10's of thousands of dollars in bill with escort services. He brought himself down.

We all get it, your not happy, give it a rest!
We are all in the same boat, the policies of the last few years are keeping everyone down with very little hope for change!
We get it, we get it!

The real estate problem cam before the Bush administration
http://spectator.org/archives/2009/02/06/the-true-origins-of-this-finan

I think I speak for most when I say, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

Wow.....talk about a low information voter. This is pathetic.
And by the way an undocumented worker is a person that left their papers at home. Please refer to them as what they are. Illegal aliens.

No, what I'm saying is Spitzer is a disgraced liberal politician who commits crimes and makes crap up about who he sees as the " enemy"( conservatives), just like the rest of you progressives that hate capitalist democracy and would rather see this nation as a form of dictatorship! You know, like Fidel Castro' s Cuba!
The same country where all the little people are controlled by him and have nothing.
Yes, the same people that risk their lives to escape communist rule to come to this country. A country that our poor look like upper class people to them because his form of government creates despair on its citizens.
Be carefully what you naive uninformed progressives wish for, this could be you!

Oh, buy the way, naive misguided progressives don't get under my skin, I just feel bad for them,for they know not what they wish for!
It's really just sad to listen to the misguided souls.

I bet you are tons of fun at a party lol. OMG seriously? Your thought process is scary!

Re: ".....molester of 17 year old interns...."
Gerry Studds (D), Censured in 1983 for it, then re-elected by you sheeple for six more terms.

And liberals like to paint conservatives as old angry white men? Holy cow, this old angry white liberal woman makes them look like Boy Scouts.

FYI,
GM, Chrysler and Ford were failing because the UAW demanded unsustainable contracts and was building inferior cars. I could by a Camry that costs less and was built better than the comparable Impala. Why because Toyota did not agree to insane contracts and did not have to cut corners like GM did to stay competitive.
Plant closings and layoffs were a direct result of those same union contracts coupled with the signing of NAFTA by Clinton.

If you are tired of the way they are handling the economy, why do you continue to elect the same people to office?
If they couldn’t get it right the first time, maybe it is time for some fresh faces all around down there, and up on Beacon Hill.

Your delusional if you think that it is all because of Bush. The D’s are just as much to blame as they take money from them also.

And nice pull of the race card there by the way. Just because I disagree with Obama’s domestic policy and want people coming into the country to sign the guestbook on the way in does not make me or anybody else a racist.

Continue with your rambling nonsense if you like, you are only making a bigger fool of yourself with each letter you type.
Look in the mirror if you are looking for somebody to cast blame on for how your life turned out. Nobody owes you or anybody else anything. Don’t like what you have, get up off your butt and work harder like the rest of us do and stop compliaining.

Time to enjoy the weekend.

Ya, Bill Clinton was real forthright!
Where is the long list of democrats you left out and why?

Oh, I almost forgot who else was real forthright! Obama with Libya! You remember, when our American citizens were killed needlessly when we had a strike force nearby that could have saved their lives?
Did any of those republicans you listed watch anyone die without coming to their aid?

even the hot dog man admitted he was WRONG yet dem-dementia keeps D followers from seeing, Oh look from your liberal rag the GLOBB

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2010/10/14/frank_haunted_by_stance_on_fannie_freddie/

Frank, in his most detailed explanation to date about his actions, said in an interview he missed the warning signs because he was wearing ideological blinders. He said he had worried that Republican lawmakers and the Bush administration were going after Fannie and Freddie for their own ideological reasons and would curtail the lenders’ mission of providing affordable housing.

This is why guys like Spitzer just hire the 20 somethings for one night, have sex, throw the money on the bed, and tell them to hit the road! Maybe the scumb progressives have this one figured out after all?
After all, the whores made an honest buck.
But did they pay their fair share of taxes on the money they made is the importent question!

"References by your pal to Archie Bunker serve no purpose"

I was drawing attention to what Michael had to say back then not Archie....

"The corporations are hell bent on taking down the unions in this country which served to make working families strong."

I'm from Pittsburgh where it was the union bosses who were hell bent on taking down what working families already HAD. Ambridge PA in to early 90's, street after street of "House For Sale" signs selling for 1/10 the price those hard working steel workers paid for them. Unions and an out of control EPA destroyed the steel industry in Pittsburgh and it's still struggling to recover

"This country is no longer the same as what is was--and the Tea Party is made of people who are racists, narrow-minded fools who have no clue. "

LIAR! Show me ONE instance that substantiates the claim that TEA Party is "racist" in any way shape or form? And that after your forked tongue remark: "I'm not pulling the race card on Obama" B S !!!!

"This country is no longer the same as what is was" - thanks to "progressive" communists undermining our global competitiveness via the highest corporate tax rates in the world, highest union worker costs in the world and most punitive moronic over-the-top EPA regulations in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-SCs6pSE8_I

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PVyDmTkfk6s/S6VWLJKP1CI/AAAAAAAADEQ/3VMKO_pdJeA/s400/3-20-10+219.JPG

Mike, in defense to SVG,she may not be lying. She may be ignorantly just repeating what the brain washers are reporting to her! Although she is obnoxiously ignorant to say the least. Look at the millions like her that voted this leadership in that have no clue and have been brain washed as well!
Poor little girly, for she may not know the error of her ways!

After all she does believe that she is a victim!
Maybe she's right, it looks like she has been victimized by the people she blindly follows!

I'm getting paid by the word? Seems to me, you and your Tea Party have ambushed this site with your extremist propaganda.

Are you guys living in the same century with the rest of us? Somehow I feel like this is a time warp from the 1950's. Those days are gone. You all need to step up to the 21st century. And by the stats and link I posted earlier, it appears many of you are within the age bracket of 50-70, so just get over it.

I have a hard time believing any of you have been born in Massachusetts. We are know as a progressive state, always have and always will be. It's due to our technology base as well as being the only state with the most colleges. There are continued changes in my own town and I don't like it much either, but it's life! You must learn to roll with it. I can't help wonder if your wives or significant others also feel the same way. My ex always voted republican, hence that is why he's an ex. We disagreed on everything regarding politics, but I voted democrat. That will be the day I let a man force me to vote republican. I know something of the republican agenda--they expect everyone to abide by their own rule book. That's a narrow view, one which is not based in reality. I was raised a conservative democrat--so fiscally I agree some things need to change, but socially I am all for helping the people who need it. That is where you are wrong. If we can help people learn how to maintain healthy, productive lives, most of the problems would disappear.

Come on John, that never happened.
That story is from Fox News.
We all know from what SomervilleGirl says that they just make stuff up.
The only way that this would have shown up on "her news" is if it was two white kids shot a black kid.

I'm outraged. Now what?

You know, there's a little website you might enjoy called Stormfront.

The point is, if this were two white kids, the media and every progressive in the world would be beating this to death as a racist attack for weeks!
We would here things like, the tea party was responsible for how these kids acted because they were brainwashed by right wing extremists!
And racism is alive and well in this country because of oppressive right wing racists!
Sound familiar?
No, this was two black kids that shot a 13 month old white kid in the face while he was in his stroller, no racism here, just look away and be silent on the race issue you hipocritical progressives!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/23/demarquis-elkins-arrested-baby-antonio_n_2939022.html

Georgia has the death penalty. If only there was a way to execute vermin like De'Marquis Elkins more than once. (assuming he's the vermin who did it)

It will VERY interesting to see what Bonnie has to say in defense of NBC trying to start a race riot by editing the Zimmerman 911 tape:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/04/03/trayvon-martin-case-leads-to-multiple-embarrassments-for-nbc-msnbc/

The original call ran as follows:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.

Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

Zimmerman: He looks black.

The altered NBC News version simply ran this way:

Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.

NBC's initial response to the facts was that someone just made an innocent 'error'...

Ya John, they have a story, it's that the Democratic Party has convinced them that they are victims, and this has made them very angry boys! And then when they commit crimes like this, they are given and excuse for their actions!
Don't you know that there is no personal responsibility for anything if your labeled as a "victim"!
"Victims" never move forward in life if they are continuously told that they are victims!

But in fact they DO have a sad story, democrats eliminated fathers from their boyhoods by substituting government as the family's provider. Democrats removed school prayer where maybe a few of these vermin might have heard at a young age that it was wrong to kill people. Racist democrats encourage black people to BELIEVE that they are inferior by automatically giving them AA, hand outs and set-asides simply on the basis of their skin color.

When they execute the vermin who perpetrate crimes like this one, remind everyone that it is democrats who created them so it's democrats who deserve the blame for the souls destroyed - ALL of them, little babies, destroyed mothers, and the wasted lives of young black males who never had a father to look up to.

Yeah, nothing is braver than recreational outrage on the interwebs. I wish I were as badass as you, John Merrett.

At least John is outraged, anyone else?

No, it doesn't matter, only to progressives that want to advance their cause and use tragedy as a political " tool"!
I Agree with you that they should face a harsh penalty for their racist crimes against a helpless infant!

What matters most of all is, who at the FBI allowed these two kids to pass the background check to buy the handgun? Or was it a rifle with no background check required?

Rob C., they probably got these guns from the Mexican criminals that Obama had sold guns to!

Our borders are wide open thanks to this administrations actions against defending our border!

Well it wouldn't matter .. IF murder rates were equally distributed along racial lines population wise but they are not.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3

Percentage of African-American population is 12.6% but they are committing at least THREE times the percentage of murders. (with most of those being murders of their own race..)

John, are you saying that Bonnie is rotting from the inside out?

Funny, what you mostly seemed to feel was the need to point out the races of the people involved. I didn't notice nearly as much weeping for the dead baby as wonderment over the lack of comment from Sharpton. See to the beam in your own eye, John.

Because what was noticeably lacking in this story is the racist attack of a "white " family by two black youths! They are not calling it what it is! Surprise, surprise!

"the need to point out the races of the people involved."

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton always do like they did making CERTAIN that everyone concentrated on the racial difference between the Duke lacrosse players and Crystal Magnum or between Travon Martin and George Zimmerman. Your STINKING RACIST MSM does it all the time when the perceived victim is balck and the perceived perpetrators are not so that's why you're gonna see it here when the colors are reversed in order to highlight the deafeningly hypocrisy of MSM silence.

Killing babies is bad, mkay? It's bad no matter who does it, which is exactly why I'm curious about your fixation on the races of the people involved. Care to 'splain?

Stop lying, please. As repeated numerous times and in numerous ways by me and others the 'fixation' is on the damn RACE MONGERING MSM - not race.

Your lame attempts to switch that into something 'else' are just pathetic at this point.

This article also seams to suggest that the tea party members are smarter then the rest of society!

When you constantly whine about the "oppression" of "women, children and minorities" what do you expect the rest of us to do? Sit back and let you get away with your stinking lies?

The TEA Party is open to EVERYONE, young/old, rich/poor and any color. It is all about civil rights - FOR EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON.

The Constitution was designed for a UNITED citizenry of informed individuals - not for a bunch of brainwashed/braindead balkanized sheep.

AS A VIETNAM VET, HERE IS WHAT CBS THINKS OF VETERANS
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2245792905001/

ok dan...sure....and giving a Fox News clip helps your point out....lol....here's what one poster farther up this page wrote IN CASE YOU MISSED IT....

Tyler Jozefowicz
11:33 am on Thursday, March 21, 2013

The Dining Dad: you're in a dream world if you actually believe FOX is "fair and balanced." Both MSNBC and FOX are bias. FOX is an arm of the Republican party. media matters estimates that FOX gave Republicans about 53 million in free advertising during the presidential election year. MSNBC was created as a response to the FOX bias to even the playing field

Robert, if what you are saying is indeed true, our social welfare system is designed to help people like you, and I think we can ALL agree on that. The problem is that there are to many freeloaders that are not deserving that will break our bank called USA!

All the racial motivation is evidenced in how MSM automatically inserts racial motivation into to ANY conflict or tragedy involving black people hurt by non black people whether or not it's true, never for any other combination. Any chance they get to reinforce the liberal meme that black people are victims of white people - they do it.

Liberal MSM spits on the grave of Martin Luther King and in the face of ALL non-white conservatives.

And I'm a progressive!